The last time I interviewed writer & author Stephen Cole was in 2019 when his musical Merman's Apprentice was getting ready to make its West Coast premiere & his musical Casper The Friendly Musical was making its world premiere in Cincinnati, OH.

 Now, Stephen is getting to release his debut novel Mary & Ethel...and Mikey Who?

I am excited to catch-up with him and find out more about this book!

In this interview, Stephen answered my call to reveal:

• How he wrote Mary & Ethel...and Mikey Who? 
• Never before told stories about his friendship with Ethel Merman & Mary Martin
• One dream he still wants to accomplish
• Who he would cast as Mary Martin & Ethel Merman if this book were to become a TV movie
• So much more

Mary & Ethel...and Mikey Who? will be released on January 16, 2024.

You can pre-order the book here!

Connect with Stephen: Website

1. You are getting ready to release your debut novel Mary & Ethel...and Mikey Who? What made you want to tell this story in book form as opposed to a theatrical production? When I began writing the book I made a conscious effort to extend my range and do something that would not require the extreme effort of getting a show on, time and time again, and collaborating. I wanted to see if I could do it. I had been doing well with short stories (winning awards and being published) and non-fiction (I have five published books including I Could Have Sung All Night with Marni Nixon) and thought this was the next step.

The eventual time travel form and the use of real characters and situations throughout suggested that a novel, which would require the readers' imagination, was the best way to go. It would cost too much for this to be a show and besides Ethel and Mary, the real characters (Josh Logan, Irving Berlin, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Jerome Robbins, Jane Fonda, Benay Venuta, Maria Karnilova, Janet Gaynor, and others) would be impossible to portray...a film maybe.

2. If Ethel Merman and Mary Martin were alive today, what do you think their reaction would be to the book? I believe that they might love it, but also might find it a fictional invasion into their privacy. I knew them both, Ethel might have been tickled or she might have never spoken to me again. You never knew how she might react. She loved me a lot and would be supportive I think. Mary probably would have had someone else read it and report to her if she liked it. 

3. For readers who are fans of Ethel and Mary, what do you think they will revel in most about this story? Both stars are totally recognizable but totally humanized. Having known them, I was able to have fun with the public personas (loud/soft brassy/sweet), but delve into their private lives and hearts. I think fans, like our protagonist, will have a blast being flies on the wall when Ethel and Mary first meet in 1938 and then they will get to go to the famous run-thru of Mary's Annie Get Your Gun tour, see how the famous Ford 50th Anniversary Show was created and attend the 1960 Tonys, as well as a hen-party at Merman's apartment to commiserate for her not winning the Tony Award. If they put themselves into Mikey Marvin Minkus' shoes and travel from the 80s to the 30s and back, they will thrill to the Golden Age of Broadway and Hollywood and see how some of the miracles happened behind the scenes.

4. What do you feel someone will discover about Ethel and Mary that they might not know? They will find out that both ladies were human beings who craved love and attention and that their show biz personas and talents were only one aspect of their lives. They will discover that even great stars are people.

Stephen Cole and Ethel Merman

5. The book weaves between reality and fantasy. How did you decide where to draw the line between what was real and what got embellished? I always say that everything is true, except what isn't. The times Mikey visits were scrupulously researched and detailed, but all the dialogue and letters are invented, yet based on fact. The lines are blurred by the time travel aspect and Mikey. He was never really there to watch and influence. Or was he?

6. The book takes readers through decades of Broadway & Hollywood history with Ethel Merman & Mary Martin, and a boy from Brooklyn who gets to live out his dream. What is one dream you still want to live out that you have not yet? My one dream is to have a big Broadway hit. I have had three off-Broadway shows and 14 of my musicals have been produced all over the world, but Broadway, where Ethel and Mary reigned, still awaits. Maybe my latest show with David Krane, Goin' Hollywood, will be the one. We feel it has legs.

7. In writing this book, did you write it in sequence or did certain parts come to you before others? I wrote several drafts, including one partial draft before Mikey even existed (my late great friend Rita Lakin, a crack writer of TV and novels gave me great advice..."write yourself into this!"), and always wrote in sequence. I had outlines and knew where I was going and where I wanted to wind up, but there were several chapters (including one called "The Blank Page" about Merman's short marriage to Ernest Borgnine) that went by the wayside as Mikey entered the scene and took over the narrative. The climax and end of the book then became inevitable. The twist in the end came as I was writing the epilogue.

Stephen Cole on the Queen Mary 2

8. Where is your favorite place to write? I have written this book in many places. I began on the beach (I love beaches!). I wrote in hotel lobbies...I wrote it at the Hermitage Retreat in Sarasota, I finished the first draft in West Hollywood near a pool. Mostly though, it was in my office at home, in front of my computer. The keyboard has gone everywhere, but the best place to write is in my head as I am taking a hot bath.

9. You had a unique friendship with both Ethel Merman and Mary Martin. What is one "behind-the-curtain" story about your friendship, with both of them, that you have not shared previously? I was closer to Ethel than to Mary. With Ethel, I have told almost all my stories in this and in Merman's Apprentice (the musical fable) and in my liner notes for my CD set Mermania 1 & 2, but my favorite moment with Ethel was one snowy winter when I went to see her at her apartment in the Surrey Hotel on the upper east side. I knocked on her door and was windblown and covered in snow when she opened it. She looked me up and down and began to sing "the snow is snowing, the wind is blowing, but I can weather the storm..." I was thrilled to have her sing just for me (and all the neighbors who opened their doors!).

Mary and I mostly spoke on the phone or via letters (she lived in Rancho Mirage, CA), but once she called to ask me to find a video tape (remember those?) of her first movie, The Great Victor Herbert. I had no copy but wondered if her co-star, Allan Jones, had one. She thought that Allan might and gave me his phone number and asked me to call him and see if he did. I shyly called Allan Jones and a very old voice answered. "Sure! Anything for Mary!" I got the tape and sent it off to her. Mary could have just as easily called him, but she was used to having things done for her. That's a telling memory about who she was.

10. If you were to adapt this book into another medium (theatrical show, film, TV show), who would you cast as Ethel and Mary? I think that this book would be a great TV film. A time traveling FEUD. The hard part of casting is that they would need to start out in 1938 when Ethel was 30 and Mary was 26 and then follow them to the 80s, so I think that fresh young talent, who could age with makeup would have to be found. Of course they could be dubbed by the real ladies for the songs! But no matter who plays them, Queen Latifah should play Mary2. Read the book and tell me if I am wrong.

Stephen Cole

More on Stephen Cole:

Stephen Cole's 25 year career in the theatre has taken him & his musicals from New York City to London to the Middle East & Australia. His Off-Broadway musical After the Fair (music by Matthew Ward; winner of 5 Dallas Theatre Awards for its world premiere) was nominated for the Outer Critic’s Circle Award for Best Musical & was subsequently produced in London to great acclaim, with the award-winning original cast CD featuring Tony winner Michele Pawk. The Night of the Hunter (music by Claibe Richardson) won the prestigious Edward Kleban Award for Stephen & was produced in San Francisco & was nominated for several Bay Area Theatre Awards. The musical was also produced in NYC at the New York Musical Theatre Festival & at Lyric Stage in Dallas with a full orchestra. The award-winning concept CD features Ron Raines & Dorothy Loudon & was the recipient of the German Music Critics Award. Saturday Night At Grossinger’s (music by Claibe Richardson) had successful runs in Dallas (starring Gavin MacLeod), LA, Florida & Sonoma, CA.

Broadway legend Chita Rivera toured in his show Casper (music by Matthew Ward) right before the pandemic. Casper was reborn as Casper-The Friendly Musical & played to rave reviews at Cincinnati Children's Theatre. Hal Linden & Dee Hoty starred in the world premiere of his musical adaptation of Dodsworth (music by Jeffrey Saver) at Casa Manana. Their next musical Time After Time had  its world premiere at the Pittsburgh Playhouse under the direction of Gabriel Barre. 

In 2005, Stephen & composer David Krane were commissioned to write the first American musical to premiere in the Middle East & the result was Aspire, which was produced in Qatar.  Their amazing & hilarious cross-cultural experiences resulted in yet another musical about the creation of the show entitled The Road To Qatar! which was produced at the Lyric Stage in Texas, plus a successful run Off-Broadway & at the Edinburgh International Festival, garnering a Best Musical nomination.  Other produced shows include Merlin's Apprentice & Rock Odyssey, which had ten seasons of productions at the Adrienne Arscht Center Miami.  With David Evans, Stephen wrote Merman's Apprentice, which was a smash hit at Birdland in NYC & has a cast album on Jay Records. The show was produced in 2019 in Sonoma, CA to rave reviews, winning the SF Drama Critics Circle Award for Best Score.  Stephen's latest musical (with David Krane), Goin’ Hollywood,  had its world premiere at WaterTower Theatre in Texas & the Dallas Morning News said "Hooray for Goin' Hollywood. A Brilliant New Musical."

In addition to MARY & ETHEL…and Mikey Who?  Stephen has published five books including That Book About That Girl & I Could Have Sung All Night, the Marni Nixon story (currently in development as a feature film from Amazon), Noel Coward & Charles Strouse's memoir Put On A Happy Face.

Stephen created & executive produced a new web-series entitled “Coney Island Surprise” starring Anita Gillette, winning numerous awards & was featured in film festivals across the US. Stephen is the recipient of a Gilman-Gonzales Falla Commendation for musical theatre. 

 25 year career in the theatre has taken him & his musicals from New York City to London to the Middle East & Australia. His Off-Broadway musical After the Fair (music by Matthew Ward; winner of 5 Dallas Theatre Awards for its world premiere) was nominated for the Outer Critic’s Circle Award for Best Musical & was subsequently produced in London to great acclaim, with the award-winning original cast CD featuring Tony winner Michele Pawk. The Night of the Hunter (music by Claibe Richardson) won the prestigious Edward Kleban Award for Stephen & was produced in San Francisco & was nominated for several Bay Area Theatre Awards. The musical was also produced in NYC at the New York Musical Theatre Festival & at Lyric Stage in Dallas with a full orchestra. The award-winning concept CD features Ron Raines & Dorothy Loudon & was the recipient of the German Music Critics Award. Saturday Night At Grossinger’s (music by Claibe Richardson) had successful runs in Dallas (starring Gavin MacLeod), LA, Florida & Sonoma, CA.

Broadway legend Chita Rivera toured in his show Casper (music by Matthew Ward) right before the pandemic. Casper was reborn as Casper-The Friendly Musical & played to rave reviews at Cincinnati Children's Theatre. Hal Linden & Dee Hoty starred in the world premiere of his musical adaptation of Dodsworth (music by Jeffrey Saver) at Casa Manana. Their next musical Time After Time had  its world premiere at the Pittsburgh Playhouse under the direction of Gabriel Barre. 

In 2005, Stephen & composer David Krane were commissioned to write the first American musical to premiere in the Middle East & the result was Aspire, which was produced in Qatar.  Their amazing & hilarious cross-cultural experiences resulted in yet another musical about the creation of the show entitled The Road To Qatar! which was produced at the Lyric Stage in Texas, plus a successful run Off-Broadway & at the Edinburgh International Festival, garnering a Best Musical nomination.  Other produced shows include Merlin's Apprentice & Rock Odyssey, which had ten seasons of productions at the Adrienne Arscht Center Miami.  With David Evans, Stephen wrote Merman's Apprentice, which was a smash hit at Birdland in NYC & has a cast album on Jay Records. The show was produced in 2019 in Sonoma, CA to rave reviews, winning the SF Drama Critics Circle Award for Best Score.  Stephen's latest musical (with David Krane), Goin’ Hollywood,  had its world premiere at WaterTower Theatre in Texas & the Dallas Morning News said "Hooray for Goin' Hollywood. A Brilliant New Musical."

In addition to MARY & ETHEL…and Mikey Who?  Stephen has published five books including That Book About That Girl & I Could Have Sung All Night, the Marni Nixon story (currently in development as a feature film from Amazon), Noel Coward & Charles Strouse's memoir Put On A Happy Face.

Stephen created & executive produced a new web-series entitled “Coney Island Surprise” starring Anita Gillette, winning numerous awards & was featured in film festivals across the US. Stephen is the recipient of a Gilman-Gonzales Falla Commendation for musical theatre.